Mount Batten

Note: Several years ago I made this comment: 'This map only shows the position of Mount Batten within the UK. Oddly perhaps, although written accounts of this major historic flying boat base abound, I have so far failed to discover an exact location. But, I suppose, the scale of the base might well mean that various moorings and slipways and so on were used over the years?" 

However, see the picture below. The Google Map is spot on.

Note: This picture, from a postcard was kindly sent by Mike Charlton, who has an amazing collection.  See;  www.aviationpostcard.co.uk

But, when was this picture taken? Probably in the 1920s, perhaps in the 1930s. I think the 1920s simply because not a single aircraft can be seen. One aspect intrigues me - there appears to be a 'stepped' hangar usually used for airship use. 




 

MOUNT BATTEN: Flying Boat and Seaplane Station   (Previously RNAS CATTEWATER in WW1) Later on usually spelt as one word - MOUNTBATTEN
Notes: All pictures by the author unless specified.

This base was RNAS (Royal Naval Air Service) CATTEWATER from 1913 until 1918: Then RAF CATTEWATER from 1918 until 1928. Renamed RAF MOUNT BATTEN from 1928 until 1986 - when it closed. I suspect all flying activities ceased when the last RAF Short S.25 Sunderlands were retired in 1959?  

Note:  The second picture was obtained from Google Earth ©








 

Military users: WW1: RNAS/RAF   (Royal Naval Air Service / Royal Air Force)

RNAS     237 Sqdn (Short 184s)       492 (Light Bomber) Flight (DH.9s)

517 & 518 (Special Duties) Flights (DH.6s)

Also; 347, 348, 349, 420, 421, 422 and 423 RNAS Flights

RAF: 237 & 238 Marine Operations Sqdns

Note: Were the DH.9s of 492 (Light Bomber) Flight and the DH.6s of 517 and 518 (Special Duties) Flights fitted with floats? Or did they use a land based site nearby?

 

 

1918 to 1939: 204 Sqdn. (Supermarine Southamptons & Scapas, Saro Londons)

209 Sqdn: (Blackburn Iris, Blackburn Perths) - these latter types being the largest biplane flying boats operated by the RAF. (Short Singapores, Supermarine Stanrears). Many other types visited of course.
 

 

Note: This memorial is on the extreme east end of The Hoe.
WW2: 10 (RAAF), 204 & 461 (RAAF) Sqdns (Short Sunderlands)

Location: In ‘The Sound’ SW of Plymouth City centre
 

Period of operation: 1913 until 1986




A MICHAEL T HOLDER GALLERY

Note:  The second and third items were published in Flight magazine on the 30th August 1928










Note: I have added the area view from my Google Earth © based database





 

AN APRIL 2023 GALLERY

A visit to this location in April 2023 proved to be very worthwhile, and despite the very inclement conditions, I managed to get a few snaps, including the two remaining WW2 hangars. Plus three pictures of flying boats from the information board.

Note:  The battleship seen behind the Sunderland is the ill-fated HMS Hood. 



 

NOTES: When starting this research, finding accounts of what happened at MOUNT BATTEN seem to be few and far between and this seems a small mystery for me. However, my very good friend Maurice J Wickstead has spent many years researching aviation history, especially airline history, and the history of Devon is one of his specialities. He has lent me his copious notes. Preceeding accounts of CATTEWATER are owed to him too. It appears the first seaplane trials actually took place after September 1913. However the formation of RNAS CATTEWATER took place in Feburary 1917 and two hangars were erected. A steam powered crane, mounted on rails, transported aircraft to and from the Mount Batten Breakwater.

The first aircraft to arrive were Short 184 types, just over twenty in all it is believed. Flying these on anti-submarine duties was a very risky business and the attrition rate was high. One flight-observer records having four forced landings at sea between July and December 1917. One crew, operating near the Scilly Isles and suffering engine failure, waited for three days to be rescued. Obviously blessed with a nigh on calm sea state?

In so many ways the operations conducted by the RFC and RNAS in WW.1 can now be, quite rightly, be considered as often suicidal. (As can so many flying operations in WW.2 of course), belying the claim that the Japanese invented the ‘kamikaze’ approach. All they did was tweek the concept a bit. For me, the difference between taking off intending to die, and knowing very well you will almost certainly die, is drawn along a pretty thin line? For example, without much doubt the Swordfish crews attacking the Bismarck, must have known they stood no chance of surviving? Only much later was it understood that the German designers of the Bismark’s defensive systems could not envisage an attack using such slow flying and antiquated aircraft!

A SUSPECT LOT
It has to be remembered, by today's standards many of the military top brass in the days before, and often during WW1, would now mostly be regarded as - take your pick;  barking mad, mentally unfit, incompetent and incapable of making rational decisions etc, etc. I read a study somewhere which claimed that if the majority took an IQ test, they would register as a 'Moron'. Such are the benefits of hindsight! At that time they were schooled in, and totally believed in, strictures of thought which were often considered immovable. Only a gifted few managed to escape such a system and in many ways the same system still applied when WW2 arrived. It is to those few that we owe a huge debt of gratitude during WW.2. People like Churchill, Dowding, Harris and Parkes.

For example, as late as 1900 the British Army’s Chief of Imperial General Staff gave his opinion; “Flying is a useless and expensive fad, advocated by a few individuals whose ideas are unworthy of attention.” (Kites and balloons only in those days). An opinion so easy to pour scorn upon today of course, but think about it. Here was a man in charge of tens of thousands of troops and a budget worth millions of pounds even in those days. Is it really so surprising? Perhaps "hidebound by convention" is the phrase I am looking for?

Oddly though, it does seem that those in charge of the 'Senior Service' - the Royal Navy, were much more likely to seize on any advantage that new ideas and technology provided, and using aircraft especially for fleet spotting was seriously tested even before WW1. And, they already had a good record such as using steam power, iron-clad ships and submarines.
 

NOTABLE ARRIVALS
In August 1918 two ‘giant’ Curtiss H.16 ‘Large America’ long-range patrol aircraft arrived at CATTEWATER for the Royal Naval Air Service, and these were soon followed by fourteen Felixstowe F.3s over several months. This period probably marking the establishment of this site as a major RNAS flying boat base? See FELIXSTOWE for more info on the development of these flying boats and the influence of Glenn Cutiss and John Porte. It is claimed that the Curtiss H-16 was actually a version of Porte’s earlier F.2A.

As always the history of such a major site is tenuous and tortuous. However, it seems three Sopwith Hamble Baby seaplanes were based here or at least nearby at DEVONPORT dockyard whilst onboard vessels such as HMS Riviera etc, (these were developments of the 1914 Schneider Trophy winning entry), and these were by then 'standard' shipborne anti-submarine and reconnaissance aircraft.

It seems worthwhile to mention here something about the RNAS situation when it was merged on the 1^st of April, (why do so many people in authority pick this of all dates?), into the RAF. The RNAS had about 2,900 aircraft and 55,000 officers and men engaged. This ill-conceived arrangement of a joint military force handling all military aviation related activities lasted until 1923 when the Fleet Air Arm was formed.

CROSSING THE ATLANTIC
It is also worth mentioning that Glenn H Curtiss had, in 1914, designed and built the ‘America’ at the Hammondsport Curtiss factory in New York State, intended to be the first flying boat to cross the Atlantic. Possibly planning to alight near Plymouth? The outbreak of WW1 put paid to that attempt. However, the idea did not go away. By March 1919 the Curtiss company had designed and assembled four ‘giant’ NC flying-boat aircraft nicknamed “Nancies” and, with the war ended, these were surplus to requirements. However, a young Assistant Secretary to the Navy, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, had other ideas. Spurred on the US Navy then set up the ‘Transatlantic Flight’ project mainly for national prestige. It should be remembered that this project was not associated with the Daily Mail prize for the first crossing of the Atlantic. Indeed, being a military project crew members were expressly denied any reward even if offered.

Three “Nancies” flew to Trepassey Bay in May 1919. On the 16^th they took-off for the 1400 mile first sector to the Azores. Unlike the later and truly pioneering flights by Alcock and Brown, Charles Linbergh etc, this was rather stage managed. A hundred destroyers were postioned at fifty mile intervals, interspersed with cruisers equipped with searchlights and wireless aids. This is not to decry the achievement, quite the opposite in fact, the US Navy in many ways pre-empting modern Health & Safety issues and making the attempt as safe as possible. Needless to say and as might be expected, many things went wrong and only NC-4 made it to Plymouth. NC-1 was sunk by gunfire after a forced landing near the Azores as it was considered as a hazard to shipping. The other NC also forced landed near the Azores but I don’t know the outcome, perhaps it sank? I’m sure the whole history of this project is well worth researching.

NC-4 and her crew of six captained by Lieutenant Commander Read carried on alone routing via Horta, Punta Delgarda, El Ferrol and Lisbon, being escorted over the Channel by three British flying boats, making landfall over Drake’s Island and alighting at 14.20 on the 31^st May. A rapturous welcome was put in place, with all the church bells ringing, Royal Navy ships sounding their sirens etc. This reception continued in London and on in the USA when they returned. After all this attention it is interesting, I think, to learn that the crews went back to their normal duties in the Navy. Just two weeks later, (yes, only TWO weeks later!), on Sunday 15^th June, Captain John Alcock and Lt. Arthur Whitten Brown plonked their modified Handley-Page bomber, arriving with a dull thud no doubt, into a bog at Clifden in County Galway. Achieving the first non-stop Trans-Atlantic crossing from Newfoundland. No troop of trumpeters and civic dignitaries there.

 

G. E. LIVOCK'S MEMORIES  
In his autobiography To the Ends of the Air Group Captain G E Livstock describes leaving Plymouth on the 1^st July 1926, (presumably MOUNT BATTEN?), in the Supermarine Southampton S1039 flying with a second Southampton S1038. Destination Egypt. In many ways this 6000nm round trip, the longest ever attempted by RAF flying boats was a ‘shakedown’ flight before attempting Australia. It seems incredible today but this flight was conducted in semi-secrecy and indeed, every attempt to avoid any publicity was drummed into the crews. Also, Livock being the pilot in charge was urged to suit his actions by, “general consideration of what is best for the Public Service, the greatest regard being paid to economy.” 

Errrrr? Right then - no mention of safety eh? Also his Air Ministry orders assured him everything had been put in place and accounted for giving him the impression, (not that he believed a word of it), that, “I could have been excused for believing that all I had to do was float around the Mediterrannean in lovely sunshine without a care in the world.” Perhaps it is so nice to see that the traditions of the Whitehall bullshit machine has survived for so long and certainly greatly appreciated by our Prime Ministers over the years.

Needless to say the arrangements made by the Air Ministry/RAF were mostly an utter shambles from the very first sector. The full account by Livock is far to long to include here, but for anybody interested in British aviation history it surely must rank as compulsory reading? However, at least this one aspect surely must be mentioned when Livstock quotes Air Chief Marshall Joubert in his book Coastal Command in which he observes, “In the early days captains of aircraft, tired and nervy from piloting the not so good aeroplanes of the period found the frustrations of international air travel almost more than they could bear.” As Livstock remarks, “How true!”

On returning to “Plymouth” one press photographer was present. His photograph and a few short extracts from an Air Ministry press handout appeared in one or two London papers it seems, and that was that. In fact, from his account, not so many even senior people in the Air Ministry were aware of this flight, or “cruise” as Livstock calls it.

Note: The flying boat base was situated on the right in this picture.

OFF TO AUSTRALIA
On Monday 17^th October 1927 four Supermarine Southamptons took off for Australia with four principal objectives:

1) To open the air route to Australia and the East

2) To select landing sites

3) To see how far flying boats and their crews were capable of operating away from fixed bases and under widely varying climatic conditions

4) To show the flag
 

As Livstock recounts in his memoir only four men had ever flown from England to Australia before; Ross Smith, Parer, Macintosh and Sir Alan Cobham. Although Livstock had spent nearly a year by sea and land researching the route, quite frankly it wasn’t too much help when it came to flying the route. The ‘Far East Flight’ was formed at FELIXSTOWE in about May 1927 and the planning and training had already started, even though their aircraft had yet to arrive! Yet again, reading G E Livstock’s account of this exercise in To the Ends of the Air is a fabulous read to anybody interested in aviation history  and a very frank account of trying to do something really quite big in scope for the first time ever.

The RAF Far East Flight was under the command of Gp Capt. Cave-Browne-Cave (they knew how to assemble surnames in those days) and they landed in Greece (Athens), Egypt, India, Australia and Japan before finishing the exercise in Singapore on the 10^th December 1928. One of the most demanding tasks was in maintaining the aircraft away from suitable facilities – especially an engine change when they often had to use portable derricks. Refuelling could be a challenge too, especially if the fuel had to ferried out in small local boats.

 

209 SQUADRON
In January 1930 209 Squadron was formed here flying Blackburn Iris IIIs, at that time the largest flying boats to enter RAF service. A flight of 550 miles via Kent saw the first Iris III ‘Leda’ S1263 arrive at 3.15PM of January 15^th. The second Iris III S1264 arrived later and both departed for Reykjavik on the 22^nd June 1930 to represent the UK at the Icelandic Parliament Millenary Celebrations. Only S1264 arrived, ‘Leda’ having suffered fuel contamination, but the return trip by S1264 did represent the first non-stop RAF flight between Iceland and the UK. 

 

Note: The Sound was the area of water, south of The Hoe in Plymouth, where the operating area was for flying boats. The location of the flying boat base is on the left hand side of the picture.






 

MORE PIONEERING FLIGHTS
MOUNT BATTEN often became a launching point for major pioneering flights. However, it wasn't all plain sailing. For example, in October 1934 209 Sqdn found itself without any aircraft due to mishaps. To make up for this the Squadron was offered three prototypes to play with; the Short Knuckleduster, Saro London and Supermarine Stranrear; the latter two types becoming classic RAF flying boats.

In December 1937 five of 204 Squadrons Saro Londons, (K5910, K5911, K5912, K6927 & K6930), departed from MOUNT BATTEN on a 30,000 mile round trip ‘cruise’, (what a delightful military expression?), to Sydney to help celebrate the University of Sydney's 150^th Anniversary, arriving on the 25^th January 1938. They all returned on the 29^th May 1938 having been away nearly six months. The only noteworthy incidents being a forced landing by K6927 in the Bay of Bengal on the way out and another, (also K6927 it seems?) off Rangoon on the way back.


THE LAST FLYING BOAT VISIT?
In April 2023 I was kindly contacted by Mr Graham Frost, a great friend of this 'Guide'. It appears that two Consolidated PBY-5 Catalinas had been flown across the Atlantic and a visit to Plymouth had been arranged for the 31st May 1986, in celebration of the first transatlantic flight in 1919 by four Curtiss NC flying boats. 

As Graham tells us, having found an accident report concerning C-FOWE; "The first landed without incident but the 2nd veered off course on landing and hit a temporary buoy before crashing into a heavy permanent navigational buoy that ripped off part of a wing and one of her floats. This caused the aircraft to cartwheel around out of control performing a spectacular 'surface loop'. Luckily she stayed afloat and the people on board were rescued by the occupants of some of the welcoming party's boats. The sinking aircraft was kept afloat and towed to the nearby former RAF flying boat base at Mount Batten where she remained in one of the old 'Sunderland' hangars under repair for several months. She eventually flew out of Plymouth Hoe on the return leg of the transatlantic flight towards the end of the year."  

Note:  The first picture is from the Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Archives. The second is from Flickr - but I cannot find who has the copyright - if it still applies? BBC film footage, (very poor when I looked), of the accident can also be found on Youtube. PS. Left click on the first picture and the caption bar should disappear.
 

 

 

 
 

---

A S Platt

This comment was written on: 2018-12-18 23:25:25
 
RAF Mountbatten. Following RAF withdrawal in the 1980's the site has been developed for leisure, housing and light marine industry. Many buildings still exist, including the two WW2 Sunderland hangers and their apron which led into Clovelly Bay. The former NCO mess is a water sports centre and there is public access to all of Mountbatten . An excellent and well illustrated book has been written about the site and its distinguished history which started as RNAS Cattewater between 1914 & 1918. I have had it and enjoyed it from my local Ivybridge library but cannot recall title or author. The site in WW2 covered all of the Mountbatten peninsula. In WW2 it was a major Sunderland and Catalina base, covering the Western Approaches in conjunction with Pembroke Dock. There are a number of memorials to the Sunderland's and their crews. Plymouth Sound was the take off & landing area, despite being cluttered with RN & civilian vessels. The OS grid ref is SX480530, and detail can be seen on the 2.5" maps, or on Bing or Google aerial mapping , including the large Sunderland hangers. The station's other claim to fame is that it is where the RAF fast air sea rescue launches were based, the Sunderland hangers being used for maintenance, the boats being hauled out on cradles from their moorings in Clovelly Bay and the Cattewater. It was here that these vessels were initially developed by Aircraftsman Shaw, who used his status and love of speed after he witnessed men killed in an accident. As you will know Shaw's love of speed led to his death near Cloud's Hill in Dorset with an accident on his Brough Superior motorbike; he had left the RAF because his ID became known and he intensely disliked the subsequent press attention. He enrolled as a soldier in one of the Tank regiment's based at Bovington. I am of course referring to Col T E Lawrence, [7 Pillars of Wisdom] whose activities contributed to the mess we British & the French left the Middle East in & that continues today. I was surprised that these items were not included in your pages on Mountbatten. There is a large amount of material about Mounbatten which has an even longer history dating back past the English Civil War [the tower marked on maps is from that era] to pre Roman times. Hope this is of use to you in adding to your website, which is interesting.

 
Reply from Dick Flute:
Dear Mr Platt, Many thanks indeed for this generous addition of information. Very much appreciated. I shall keep this posted. Best regards, Dick
 

 
 

---

Roger E Haddock

This comment was written on: 2021-06-20 07:41:50
 
I was a member of No1 county of Hertford Sqdn MHU RAuxAF based in Northwood and we entertained members of No 3 MHU on several occasions. I remember them as being a very friendly if not slightly mad bunch who it was always a pleasure to meet.Happy days.
 

We'd love to hear from you, so please scroll down to leave a comment!

 

---

 

Leave a comment ...

Name
 
Email:
 
Message:
 

 
Copyright (c) UK Airfield Guide